Zev Porat

Tuesday, August 20, 2019

JEWISH-CHRISTIAN SCHOLAR WANTS WIFELY SUBMISSION BANNED

Rev. Joda Collins.
 
I write this because gender distinction is an important issue in today's society. The political and religious left want to erase gender differences so they can erase gender references in society. Among other bad things, that destroys the godly concept of marriage and eventually (they hope) the institution of marriage. That is their bottom line. 
 
"...in the latter times some shall...giv(e) heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils...forbidding to marry...." First Timothy 4:1-3. KJV.
 
I am currently in written discourse on a public website with a supposed Hebrew scholar who is a professing Christian.  He holds the position that First Timothy 2:11-14, First Peter 3:1 and Ephesians 5:22-24 should not be in the Bible and/or are wrong; or, he may hold that even though these verses are wrong it is okay if they are in the Bible.  He is not easy to pin down.
 
"Let the women learn in silence with all subjection.  But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.  For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression."   First Timothy 2:11-14. KJV.
 
"Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands....Even as Sara obeyed Abraham, calling him lord...."   First Peter 3:1a and 3:6a. 
 
"Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the body....Therefore, as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in everything."  Ephesians 5:22-24.

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I hesitate to reveal who this person is.  I better not.  Who he is is not as important as what he stands for and his influence.  That said, the bold print (as shared on public media) are his words and the light print would be my response on his web site if his web site allowed room for a full response.  His web site allows him unlimited space for his input, but only a few words in response. 
 
Outside of the reference to Eve in Gen 2:18-20, "helper" (עזר; ezer) refers to God. Thus, "helper" doesn't denote "submission" in Hebrew thought. 

Hum?  I say God created Eve as his helper, therefore, in submission to him not as his supervisor.  You say, there are one or more verses where God is noted as our helper, so Hebrews cannot or do not think in terms of the word "helper" being used in the context of a one in submission helping someone who is their authority.  That response is so irrational I find myself without words to respond.  It reminds me of being asked "Have you beaten your wife lately?"  However, I understand your innuendo. The problem with innuendo (fancy word footwork designed to avoid the honest exchange of ideas) is that innuendo has to be clarified before any rational answer can be provided and that takes a lot of words.

If your insinuation is that "outside of the reference to Eve in Genesis 2:18-20, helper ONLY refers to God," then you are wrong.  The word help, helping, helper appears more than 150 times in the Bible, often referring to humans helping humans and often in the context of a subordinate helping the superior in the relationship, not just referring to God as our helper. 

If your insinuation is that Jewish (Hebrew) people cannot or do not think in terms of the word helper being applied to someone who is a subordinate in authority, in 24 hours I could secure a dozen responses from Jewish Bible scholars who would emphatically deny that position and even a cursory reading of the Bible exposes that position as errant; Timothy and Paul were Jews.  Paul was the senior authority and Timothy was Paul's helper. Case closed.  Jews (Hebrews) can and do use the word helper in terms of an authoritative leader behind assisted by an subordinate in authority.

If  your insinuation is that the word "helper" does not automatically imply submission, I agree, but I never said it did.

My position is that God created Eve to help him not supervise him and that as his created helper she is not vested with authority over him but as her leader (head), if for no other reason that a two-headed leader is unnatural. 

If your insinuation is that God helps us and we are not in authority over God, therefore, all helpers are superior in authority in relationship to the person they are helping shows a severe lack of rational adult-level thought.  

Your entire argument starts out weak and just gets weaker.

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1 Tim 2:11-14 is one of only two texts in the entire NT that explicitly teaches female submission, and this passage is also in tension with a mountain of biblical texts that uphold female autonomy. 

You are wrong. There are three such texts.  However, that is an honest mistake (I hope).  

How many times must the Bible explicitly state something before you will approve it?  By your logic, if John 3:16 and Romans 10:9 were the only two verses in the Bible about salvation both verses should be ignored. I find it very interesting that you are willing to discard three texts in the Bible that explicitly teach anything!  What does claiming that authority say about you?   

I reject your low opinion of the Word of God; the Word of God is not in tension (opposition) with itself, but complimentary with itself.  
    
You error, there is no mountain of biblical texts that uphold the authority of wives over husbands. Saying that such a mountain exists is not the same thing as such a mountain in existence.  
     
Who said anything about the broad topic of full-autonomy (self-governed/answers to no authority)?  No one including you or me, is free from some form of authority/mandate for submission (police, the US Constitution, employer, etc).   You are introducing a set of criteria/premises that are not part of the relevant discussion.  This is "deflection" from the focus of the conversation, not contribution to it.  Deflection is honorable in debate where the only goal is to win the argument in the minds of those listening, but dishonorable when it comes to seeking biblical truth. That is the low, low road.
 
Scripture is replete with women teaching and/or having authority over men (e.g., Genesis 38:24-26; Judges 4:4-5; Proverbs 31: 11, 26-28; Matt 12:42; Acts 18:26; Romans 16:1-2); 

Scripture is NOT replete with with women teaching and/or having authority over men, including the verses you noted.

Genesis 38:24:26:  A woman asks a man to consider her viewpoint.

Judges 4:4-5:  Debra had no authority to enforce.  She was a godly adviser.  Do not confuse a Judge of Judges 4 with the role of a United States judge. 

The Holy Ghost is nothing like Casper the friendly ghost, a god is not God, a Lord is not automatically Jesus and so on.  Certainly, a wise husband will consider in his decision-making the wisdom and wise judgment of his wife; she is his helper called of God to be his assistant.  Being in submission does not mean she is without value, wisdom or honor -- or should be treated with disrespect. 

Proverbs 31:11, 26 -28: These verses denote what a good/trustworthy wife is. These verses do not establish a wife as free from the submissive role unto her husband. 

Matthew 12:42: You cannot really be serious that because the Queen of Sheba recognized the wisdom of Solomon and agreed with his judgement means that a wife is exempt from being in submission to her husband.  Are you serious or just blowing smoke?  I hope you realize the one greater than Solomon noted in this verse is the Lord Jesus Christ and not the Queen of the South.  

Acts 18:26:  Your position is that if a husband and wife, at their own kitchen table, talk with a seeker of God about the things of God, that means a wife is not called of God to be in submission to her husband. You are kidding, right? If not, do you really think the average Bible student is so stupid as to take seriously your position?

Romans 16:1-2:  You do know the word "deacon" is the word "servant" don't you.  Your position that a woman who serves in the church is evidence that the biblical role of a wife in submission to her husband is null and void is beyond ridiculous.  Besides that, the role of a deacon is not a role of authority over anyone! 
 
You have no case. Your evidence is nothing but verses quoted that have no bearing on the subject. You might as well reference John 3:16, Acts 4:12 and Romans 10:9-10 as your evidence that the biblical role of wives as in submission to the husband is null and void and/or wrong; they are equally as relevant. 
 
"Adam was not deceived, but the woman" goes against what Paul says in Romans 5:12-17 about the sin of Adam. 
Wow!  I am always flabbergasted when a supposed Bible scholar uses one verse or series of verses in the Bible in an attempt to destroy another verse or series of verses in the Bible. That says a lot. Beyond that, Romans 5:12-17 does not go against "Adam was not deceived, but the woman."  And, you know it!
 
As a rule, when we have one passage that says "A," and one hundred passages that say "B," it is best to build our worldview on "B" — this holds particularly well for the question of female leadership in Bible.
There is no such rule in valid biblical exegesis.  That rule only exists among those who cannot rightly divided the Word.  It is a cop-out rule for those who are confused by the Word.  "Dah! I have my verses and you have yours! You believe your way and I will believe my way."  

You do not have one hundred verses that state that a wife is not to be in submission to her husband; as a fact you do not have one single verse.  Like the theory of evolution you have theory backed by convoluted phrases, half-truths, out of context references, innuendo and lies, but not one bone of real evidence.  

In this case there is no B, so you are building your worldview on nothing because all there is, is A.  That fact that you reject A is inconsequential beyond your influence to mislead.   "Let God be true...."
 
I can already hear the complaints about this article. My response, is 1 Timothy 1:7, 2 Timothy 4:3, Jude 1:12, Jude 1:16, devoid of the character flaws noted.

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Rev . Joda  Collins
www.jodacollins/spotlight/lulu.com
I make no claim that anyone else agrees with me.

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