The Darkness Grows Darker...
We were summarily told to “leave.”
Assistant Manager Mark Curry: 'I'll do what I have to do.'
Pastor Gallups: 'There's an important matter of perspective here.'
PNN News and Ministry Network Staff Writer (12-9-18)
Pastor Carl Gallups of Hickory
Hammock Baptist Church in Milton, Florida has led his church for about fifteen years in
an annual Christmas caroling event at the local Pace, Florida Walmart. He has been the Sr. Pastor there for 32 years.
Volunteer members from his
church, other churches, and even random people from the community, gather and stand
outside in a large alcove area on the front side of the store that faces the
parking lot.
They usually have anywhere from 70-100 carolers show up and
sing traditional Christmas carols. Sometimes the caroling includes a live manger
scene. The entire event lasts no more than an hour, but has become a popular Christmas
tradition for the community and its shoppers.
Pastor Gallups says, “Of course,
we have always sought, and received, the proper permission from management to do the caroling event. In
fact, over the years, we’ve actually had managers call us just before the
Christmas holidays and ask us if we were coming back again – telling us that
they get so many compliments on the caroling. We’ve never had a moment’s trouble with the event. Not an unkind word
has ever been spoken to us, and not a soul has leveled an objection regarding us
simply standing out front - not even near an entrance - and singing Christmas
carols that are well-known throughout the world.”
Hickory Hammock Baptist Church - Christmas 2018
“We asked permission again this year,” Pastor Gallups said. “One of our associate pastors called the Walmart business office a few weeks before we came and asked if it was okay to return again this year to sing. The woman in the office said it would be fine, and appreciated the phone call. My associate pastor told her that we just wanted to be courteous and that we would never come without asking first. She thanked him and told us to ‘come on.' I can also tell you that under the past manager, Mr. Steve Williams, we were told we didn't even have to ask for permission, because of the popularity of what we were doing and the way in which we had always conducted ourselves. However, we always asked anyway - every single year. ”
“We asked permission again this year,” Pastor Gallups said. “One of our associate pastors called the Walmart business office a few weeks before we came and asked if it was okay to return again this year to sing. The woman in the office said it would be fine, and appreciated the phone call. My associate pastor told her that we just wanted to be courteous and that we would never come without asking first. She thanked him and told us to ‘come on.' I can also tell you that under the past manager, Mr. Steve Williams, we were told we didn't even have to ask for permission, because of the popularity of what we were doing and the way in which we had always conducted ourselves. However, we always asked anyway - every single year. ”
When asked if the church group
ever sold anything, or did any kind of solicitation or parking-lot proselytizing,
pastor Gallups said, “Never. Absolutely not. We simply come, set up the manger
scene and sing. We talk to people who come up to us. Most of them thank us for
singing, or ask us what church we are from – things like that. But we do not
solicit anything from anyone. We are simply there to shine a little light in
the darkness.”
“The shoppers love it!” Pastor
Gallups said. “Some people stand around in groups in the parking lot, on the
grass islands, and listen to us sing the entire time. Others come and join us
in the singing. A lot of people drive through in their cars with their windows
down and give us the thumbs up, or shout ‘thank you so much for doing this!’ Others have taken video footage of us and
immediately posted it on social media. The response has always been extremely
positive. In all our years of singing the carols, not one time has anyone said
anything nasty to us. We’ve even had Walmart employees and managers come out
and thank us – while we are singing. Until this year.”
The Grinch
This year, however, all of that
changed. Pastor Gallups related the following to PNN.
“Last night, while we were
singing, a Walmart assistant manager by the name of Mark Curry approached me
and asked who we were. I was somewhat taken aback, since we’ve done this for so
many years and we had once again asked permission to be there. I told him that
I was the pastor and I told him who we were. I could tell by the look on his
face, and his overall tone, that he did not like the fact that we were there.
He wanted to know if we had permission and who we had talked to – he said that
he would not allow what we were doing if we did not have permission. I told him of our long standing tradition in what we were doing and that for every
single year of singing in this location that we had always asked for permission,
including this year. I asked him if they had had any complaints about us this
night – and he said he just wanted to know ‘who told you that you could come?’”
Pastor Gallups related that the
assistant manager appeared skeptical. “Mr. Curry looked at me as though he
thought I was lying when I assured him that we had permission, and that we had
called the administrative offices beforehand. I saw it in his face. His
expression appeared to be that of total disbelief in what I was saying.”
We asked Pastor Gallups what he
did then. “So, I told him that we would leave if he wanted us to, that we would
not give him any trouble but that we certainly did have permission to be there.”
“I told him that we didn’t just ‘show
up’ and start singing on their property. I told him that we would never do such
a thing. Mr. Curry said that he was going back in the store and would be checking
with the manager on duty that night and then he was going to ‘do what he had to
do.’ Those were the actual words he used! And then he turned and walked off. I
couldn’t believe my ears.”
The Response
The Response
PNN asked Pastor
Gallups, “What did Mr. Curry say when he returned?”
The pastor
responded, “He came back about ten minutes later and said that ‘none of the
people in the office knew anything about us singing.’ He then told us we would
have to leave immediately, that he ‘wasn’t going to allow us to be there.’ Again, he said ‘I’ll do what I have to do.’ "
"I took it as some kind of threat," Pastor Gallups said. "It was as if he might call the police or something. I could be mistaken in his meaning, but in my opinion, his attitude exuded a threatening tone. I told him that we would leave, and that I too would ‘do what I had to do.’ I explained that what I meant by that was that I would make certain that people knew how we had been treated that night, and I would be getting with Walmart managment over the next several days to straighten all this out and get to the bottom of it.
"I knew then that the affair was taking an ugly turn. It seemed to me, at that point, Mr. Curry perhaps had an alternative agenda. The entire thing could have been handled in a much more courteous manner. So, at that time, I assured him that we would comply with his instructions and leave.”
I suppose the most important clue that he might have had nefarious intentions is when I asked him his name. He said, 'Mark.' I asked him his last name. Again, he said 'Mark.'"
"I later found out that another assistant manager was there, in the store, the same night we were singing. That manager is actually a member of our church. I had told Mark, early in our first conversation, that this particular employee had helped us get this approved in the past - when we had first started. I told him that he would know all about it, and that I was speaking the truth about asking permission. I asked if he knew him. Mark grinned and said 'Yes, I know him.' But apparently when he went inside to ask the managers if we could be there, Mark never spoke to the assistant manager that was one of our own church members!"
"I took it as some kind of threat," Pastor Gallups said. "It was as if he might call the police or something. I could be mistaken in his meaning, but in my opinion, his attitude exuded a threatening tone. I told him that we would leave, and that I too would ‘do what I had to do.’ I explained that what I meant by that was that I would make certain that people knew how we had been treated that night, and I would be getting with Walmart managment over the next several days to straighten all this out and get to the bottom of it.
"I knew then that the affair was taking an ugly turn. It seemed to me, at that point, Mr. Curry perhaps had an alternative agenda. The entire thing could have been handled in a much more courteous manner. So, at that time, I assured him that we would comply with his instructions and leave.”
I suppose the most important clue that he might have had nefarious intentions is when I asked him his name. He said, 'Mark.' I asked him his last name. Again, he said 'Mark.'"
"In other words he didn't want to give me his last name. I asked him if he was ashamed to give me his last name. I said that I couldn't believe that he would order us off the property and then not even be courteous enough to give me his last name so that I could speak accurately when I was finally able to sit down with general management people. He finally said, 'Curry. Mark Curry.' I asked him the manager's name and he said 'Deborah.' I asked what her last name was and he said, 'I'm not giving you her name.' Then he turned and left."
We asked pastor
Gallups how the caroling crowd responded when he told them. “They were
embarrassed and heartbroken," He said.
"Some of the people who were there for the singing had invited their friends and family members to come with them. We’ve been doing this with the utmost of integrity and respect for so many years. We simply had a word of prayer for the store managers, and Mr. Curry in particular. Nothing derogatory was said about Mr. Curry, I just told them to pray for him. And then we left. Almost everyone in the crowd was also planning on shopping at that Walmart right after singing. Every one of them left without shopping there. However, I made no calls for a boycott, nor do I wish to disparage Walmart as a whole. We have always had a good relationship with our local Walmart - for many years - through community disasters, hurricanes, and the like. Of course this store has gone through several managment changes in my many years here in this community.”
"Some of the people who were there for the singing had invited their friends and family members to come with them. We’ve been doing this with the utmost of integrity and respect for so many years. We simply had a word of prayer for the store managers, and Mr. Curry in particular. Nothing derogatory was said about Mr. Curry, I just told them to pray for him. And then we left. Almost everyone in the crowd was also planning on shopping at that Walmart right after singing. Every one of them left without shopping there. However, I made no calls for a boycott, nor do I wish to disparage Walmart as a whole. We have always had a good relationship with our local Walmart - for many years - through community disasters, hurricanes, and the like. Of course this store has gone through several managment changes in my many years here in this community.”
We asked Pastor
Gallups, “What happens next? What are your plans for follow-up?”
“Well, I plan to
have a meeting with the store's new general manager, Brian English, and see if we can get to the bottom of
this misunderstanding. The evening did not bode well for
Walmart’s reputation in the community, I can assure you. But, we’ve had such a
great relationship with them in the past, I can’t imagine we can’t work
something out."
"The bottom line is this – it is Walmart’s property and it is their right to not have us there. We are not trying to force ourselves on anyone. We will abide by their ultimate wishes in the matter. We will sing somewhere else next year if need be. Within an hour of the event being closed down by Mr. Curry last night, we had calls from another Walmart in our county – from employees there who had already heard. They said ‘Come out to our store! We’d love to have you sing carols at our store!”
"The bottom line is this – it is Walmart’s property and it is their right to not have us there. We are not trying to force ourselves on anyone. We will abide by their ultimate wishes in the matter. We will sing somewhere else next year if need be. Within an hour of the event being closed down by Mr. Curry last night, we had calls from another Walmart in our county – from employees there who had already heard. They said ‘Come out to our store! We’d love to have you sing carols at our store!”
Perspective
Pastor Gallups
said, “This is not a big thing in the long run. Only a little ‘persecution.’ Big deal.
There are almost 100,000 of our brothers and sisters in Christ around the world,
who are put to death each year simply because they are followers of Jesus.
Getting kicked out of one Walmart is no big deal. We’ll be just fine. All
praise to Jesus Christ, that at least we got to sing into the darkness for a
little while.”
Pastor Gallups says he has a call in to Walmart managment and hopes to have a meeting with the manager English very soon. He says he holds no ill feeling towards Mr. Curry - he was "Just concerned why Mr. Curry handled it like he did."
"Maybe he was just having a bad night," Pastor Gallups said.
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UPDATE - 12/11/18
Pastor Gallups called to tell us that he had a meeting yesterday (12-11-18) with Mr. Brian English, the new store General Manager. He said the meeting was cordial and that Mr. English expressed regret that the situation turned out the way it did.
Pastor Gallups said that Walmart corporate offices had recently devised a new policy, and a form that had to be signed in order for groups to have an event at Walmart.
Pastor Gallups told us, "I read and signed the form, but asked him about the very last item that said a group could have no more than 15 people in it. Of course, for over 15 years we've had anywhere from 40-100+ people, depending upon the weather, etc. Mr. English said he would 'see if he could get us a waver next year - we'd just have to wait and see.'"
Pastor Gallups concluded, "Look, if the Pace Walmart doesn't want us to continue with our Christmas singing there in the future - we'll comply, it's as simple as that. I don't know if we'll get a waver or not. Mr. English was professional in his deportment, but he made no comittment that he would allow us back next year with our full choir of Christmas carollers. We'll see what happens next Christmas. In the meantime, I pray the best for Mr. English and Mr. Curry. They are always welcome in our church family."
Reach Pastor Carl Gallups at bookcarlgallups@gmail.com
www.carlgallups.com
Pastor Gallups says he has a call in to Walmart managment and hopes to have a meeting with the manager English very soon. He says he holds no ill feeling towards Mr. Curry - he was "Just concerned why Mr. Curry handled it like he did."
"Maybe he was just having a bad night," Pastor Gallups said.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
UPDATE - 12/11/18
Pastor Gallups called to tell us that he had a meeting yesterday (12-11-18) with Mr. Brian English, the new store General Manager. He said the meeting was cordial and that Mr. English expressed regret that the situation turned out the way it did.
Pastor Gallups said that Walmart corporate offices had recently devised a new policy, and a form that had to be signed in order for groups to have an event at Walmart.
Pastor Gallups told us, "I read and signed the form, but asked him about the very last item that said a group could have no more than 15 people in it. Of course, for over 15 years we've had anywhere from 40-100+ people, depending upon the weather, etc. Mr. English said he would 'see if he could get us a waver next year - we'd just have to wait and see.'"
Pastor Gallups concluded, "Look, if the Pace Walmart doesn't want us to continue with our Christmas singing there in the future - we'll comply, it's as simple as that. I don't know if we'll get a waver or not. Mr. English was professional in his deportment, but he made no comittment that he would allow us back next year with our full choir of Christmas carollers. We'll see what happens next Christmas. In the meantime, I pray the best for Mr. English and Mr. Curry. They are always welcome in our church family."
Reach Pastor Carl Gallups at bookcarlgallups@gmail.com
www.carlgallups.com
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